From - Thu Jun 04 04:57:53 1998 Path: fstgal00.tu-graz.ac.at!aconews.univie.ac.at!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!newsfeed1.funet.fi!mordred.cc.jyu.fi!not-for-mail From: Tapani Tarvainen Newsgroups: comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.large,comp.unix.machten Subject: Re: weekday in unix/awk??? Date: 28 May 1998 10:22:53 +0300 Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland Lines: 55 Message-ID: References: <355C2CD1.ED375591@tds.de> <3u41k6.p67.ln@inetserv.infinet-group.com> <356AD83A.958@musicland.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tarzan.math.jyu.fi NNTP-Posting-User: tt X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Xref: fstgal00.tu-graz.ac.at comp.unix.programmer:40973 comp.unix.shell:31537 comp.unix.admin:38133 comp.unix.advocacy:45844 comp.unix.aix:62793 comp.unix.large:1174 comp.unix.machten:4406 John Jaszczak writes: > It sounds to me as though the laws and customs regarding the > redistribution of software is a little different on the other side > of the "pond". Personally, I don't care who owns what as long as > I am free to use it as I see fit. I guess I should've been more clear about my intent. I threw that copyright claim in there precisely because I was rather exasperated at some recent copyright arguments I've been involved in (including one book claiming copyright to "calendar data and formulas", which btw I believe can't be valid, but it still annoyed the hell out of me). As far as Usenet postings are concerned, the situation is apparently this (in any country that's party to the Berne Convention, including USA): If you use a piece of code (or whatever) posted to the Usenet without explicit copyright statement you are either breaking the law or assuming an implicit copyright claim and permission -- i.e., you are assuming the poster has the copyright or the copyright holder's permission, and that they are authorizing its use. In effect you are assuming an implicit copyright statement similar to what I wrote explicitly. The validity of such an assumption isn't at all obvious. It's quite certain that posting to Usenet in itself does *not* constitute giving up copyright or placing the work in the public domain. It could be argued that posting a piece of code in response to such a request obviously implies permission to use it, but making it explicit shouldn't hurt anyone. I guess I should've formulated it differently to avoid the impression that my intent was to get credit or whatever; next time I think I'll just state "this code is in the public domain", which should have essentially same legal effect (implicitly claiming myself the copyright so that I can place it in the public domain) but hopefully avoid misunderstanding my purpose. Of course such a small piece of code could be argued to be too trivial to be copyrightable, but again, playing it safe shouldn't hurt anyone. By the way, in case anyone is wondering, I definitely don't like having to deal with this kind of legal mumbo-jumbo. Indeed I'm beginning to think that Stallman may be right and that it'd be better if copyright were abolished altogether. Finally, my apologies for overreacting to Kevin's remark. Indeed, it was actually useful in pointing out that I'd failed to make my point. -- Tapani Tarvainen From - Thu Jun 04 04:57:53 1998 Path: fstgal00.tu-graz.ac.at!aconews.univie.ac.at!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed.wli.net!nntp.teleport.com!news.teleport.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.large,comp.unix.machten Subject: Re: weekday in unix/awk??? References: <355C2CD1.ED375591@tds.de> <3u41k6.p67.ln@inetserv.infinet-group.com> <356AD83A.958@musicland.com> From: Michael Powe Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: Organization: The Hospice of the Mind Lines: 42 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.6.5/Emacs 20.2 Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:03:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.108.254.19 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 06:03:45 PDT Xref: fstgal00.tu-graz.ac.at comp.unix.programmer:40985 comp.unix.shell:31546 comp.unix.admin:38145 comp.unix.advocacy:45854 comp.unix.aix:62803 comp.unix.large:1176 comp.unix.machten:4407 >>>>> "Tapani" == Tapani Tarvainen writes: Tapani> John Jaszczak writes: >> It sounds to me as though the laws and customs regarding the >> redistribution of software is a little different on the other >> side of the "pond". Personally, I don't care who owns what as >> long as I am free to use it as I see fit. [ ... ] Tapani> As far as Usenet postings are concerned, the situation is Tapani> apparently this (in any country that's party to the Berne Tapani> Convention, including USA): Tapani> If you use a piece of code (or whatever) posted to the Tapani> Usenet without explicit copyright statement you are either Tapani> breaking the law or assuming an implicit copyright claim Tapani> and permission -- i.e., you are assuming the poster has Tapani> the copyright or the copyright holder's permission, and Tapani> that they are authorizing its use. In effect you are All e-mail and other posting to the internet is implicitly copyrighted by the poster under US copyright law. Technically (legally), it is a violation of that law to use any of that material without the poster's permission, beyond the limits of the "fair use" clause. The US Congress recently debated legislation that would have sharply reduced the category of "fair use," but I didn't follow how that turned out. Also, they presently are debating a bill that would seem to have the effect of making it illegal to do most forms of electronic text copying (e.g., saving a web page to your own disk for later use). This seems pretty ridiculous, yes; but then, when the VCR first appeared, they debated banning it in order to prevent the home taping of movies, too. mp /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // "Thus shines a good deed in a weary world." // // Michael Powe looie@teleport.com // /////////////// pgpk -a finger://teleport.com/looie /////////////////// From - Thu Jun 04 04:57:53 1998 Path: fstgal00.tu-graz.ac.at!aconews.univie.ac.at!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-raspail.gip.net!news-dc.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!169.132.11.200!news.idt.net!chippy.visi.com!192.28.4.21.MISMATCH!news-out.visi.com!news From: damercer@mmm.com (Dan A. Mercer) Newsgroups: comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.large,comp.unix.machten Subject: Re: weekday in unix/awk??? Followup-To: comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.large,comp.unix.machten Date: 28 May 1998 14:51:35 GMT Organization: 3M - St. Paul, MN 55144-1000 US Lines: 21 Message-ID: <6kjtln$qmg$1@sulu.mmm.com> References: X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9] Xref: fstgal00.tu-graz.ac.at comp.unix.programmer:40998 comp.unix.shell:31556 comp.unix.admin:38155 comp.unix.advocacy:45858 comp.unix.aix:62817 comp.unix.large:1178 comp.unix.machten:4409 Michael Powe (looie+gnus@teleport.com) wrote: : All e-mail and other posting to the internet is implicitly copyrighted : by the poster under US copyright law. Technically (legally), it is a : violation of that law to use any of that material without the poster's : permission, beyond the limits of the "fair use" clause. Not necessarily. In order for a work to be copyrighted, it must meet several tests: that it is "sufficiently unique", whatever the hell that is, that there be no "prior art", etc. Most postings to the internet (99.999%) including this one don't meet the criteria. : /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// : // "Thus shines a good deed in a weary world." // : // Michael Powe looie@teleport.com // : /////////////// pgpk -a finger://teleport.com/looie /////////////////// -- Dan Mercer Reply To: damercer@mmm.com Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer. From - Thu Jun 04 04:57:53 1998 Path: fstgal00.tu-graz.ac.at!aconews.univie.ac.at!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!halon.vggas.com!not-for-mail From: James Youngman Newsgroups: comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.large,comp.unix.machten Subject: Re: weekday in unix/awk??? Followup-To: poster Date: 28 May 1998 16:10:24 +0100 Organization: VG Gas Analysis Systems Sender: james@noisy.vggas.com Message-ID: References: <6kjtln$qmg$1@sulu.mmm.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: uriel.vggas.com To: damercer@mmm.com (Dan A. Mercer) X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Lines: 11 Xref: fstgal00.tu-graz.ac.at comp.unix.programmer:41002 comp.unix.shell:31559 comp.unix.admin:38156 comp.unix.advocacy:45862 comp.unix.aix:62821 comp.unix.large:1179 comp.unix.machten:4410 >>>>> "dam" == Dan A Mercer writes: dam> Not necessarily. In order for a work to be copyrighted, it dam> must meet several tests: that it is "sufficiently unique", dam> whatever the hell that is, that there be no "prior art", etc. No, you're thinking of patents, not copyright. They're very different. I was going to trim the Newsgroups: line, but *none* of them seem to be appropriate for this topic. Hence Followup-To: poster.